Real Estate Game Changers Show
Do's and Don'ts of the Real Estate Business
Gabe shares his journey over the past 19 months, detailing why he left Yellow Bird, started a new venture with a group, and then chose to scale back to find personal and professional clarity. The discussion covers the challenges of rapid scaling, the importance of having clear goals, and the benefits of a more focused and virtual approach to real estate investing. Gabe also talks about his strategies for marketing, lead generation, and closing deals, while emphasizing the value of personal development and creating a business model that allows for freedom and flexibility. Key takeaways include the evolving real estate market, the role of in-person versus virtual sales, and the importance of building strong relationships in the industry.
Gabe shares his journey over the past 19 months, detailing why he left Yellow Bird, started a new venture with a group, and then chose to scale back to find personal and professional clarity. The discussion covers the challenges of rapid scaling, the importance of having clear goals, and the benefits of a more focused and virtual approach to real estate investing. Gabe also talks about his strategies for marketing, lead generation, and closing deals, while emphasizing the value of personal development and creating a business model that allows for freedom and flexibility. Key takeaways include the evolving real estate market, the role of in-person versus virtual sales, and the importance of building strong relationships in the industry.
All right, everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Game Changers show. I'm your host, Mike McKay, based in Jacksonville, Florida. And each and every week we do this show with people who are changing the game of real estate all over the country. If anyone is in the Jacksonville area, please And thinking about getting into real estate and you've got some sales experience. We are hiring salespeople. You don't need any real, real estate experience. We can teach you that part, but we are looking for experienced salespeople to help us buy some more properties. This week. Oh, if you're interested, send me a DM on Instagram and let's talk this week on the show, we're We have a returning guest, Gabe Menescal. Gabe, welcome to the show. Again.
Gabe:going on. Thank you. Thank you again for having me. I appreciate it. And last time was good. And a lot has changed since last time. So I'm excited to talk about what's been going on.
Mike:Yeah. So for people who maybe didn't listen to the last episode, you want to tell us a little bit about where you were, let's call it about 19 months ago and the changes that you've made.
Gabe:absolutely. So backtracking, I had left yellow bird and decided to start with a group of seven. Right. It said, Hey, we're going to start this big thing in what flippers would call a tougher market for sure. And I was really bullish on it at the time. And the reality was, you know, I didn't necessarily know what I wanted with my own life personally but I figured you know, I just want to make more money. So That just means I have to scale a real estate business fast forward a year and a half later pretty much and you know, I realized that'll die out If you don't really realize why you're doing what you're doing and the answer just to make more money is never going to cut it you know when I was One man show and then just doing sales Just in general working at yellowbird and being the just hustling grinding for deals doing stuff myself I was making more money less headaches less having to manage people things like that. But I knew what I wanted at the time, granted. I had some personal things that happened that I really had to figure out what I wanted to do, that I want to stay in Jacksonville, you know, away from family, stuff like that. And I really had to kind of get in tune with myself. And I was too busy trying to keep everything, making sure everything was going well here with everyone. And I decided to scale back just to kind of readjust and figure out, Hey, you know, maybe scaling. A real estate business is not what you want. And I quickly realized that. And I figured, you know, I'd rather make this decision now than do it two years from now and drag, more importantly, my other employees with me, drag them because I'm doing them a disservice at the end of the day. And that's really what I thought about was, Hey, you know, it's not fair for me to drag you down this path and lead you guys if I don't even know where I'm going. So that was a big thing, not knowing where exactly I wanted to go and why I was coming to work every day. And, you know, on a surface level, I would tell you I just wanted to make more money. However, if you don't know where you're going, you can't lead people. So, it's going to be harder that way. So I learned that, learned some hard lessons for sure, but I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't take it back, you know,
Mike:How did you go about discovering what you did? 1.
Gabe:I had to take a step back and break the, get my head out of the pigeon hole of Jacksonville, real estate, my circle people that I lean on usually here actually. I would say the eye opening trip for me was this mastermind in Cabo, where there's people doing other, other things, right? There's people that are in real estate, trying to, very successful within it, have scaled the real estate business. And there's people doing different things and just not being present here in the day to day and just letting my mind, know or learn things that I didn't already know because you only know what you know. It really kind of opened my eyes and we did a lot more, we did a lot more exercises that made you question a lot of your personal stuff, what you're doing, things like that. And I didn't have any good answers. And all these people that I realized that were At a high level could tell you exactly where they're going what their numbers are right now Right kpi is what their numbers need to be To get where they want to go on the business side of things and then more importantly why they're doing what they're doing Right and why they're leading these people and creating this vision for them that's what I noticed about the high level people that I spoke with and I quickly realized like I don't have an answer. So I need to take some time for myself, which I did. I leaned, I leaned into talking to family more so much that I made a trip back to Brazil for the first time in a long time. And that was really what, what kind of change, that was a turning point for me probably when I went to Brazil for sure.
Mike:What, what made that trip a turning point for you? Mm.
Gabe:Not seeing family for the first time in 10 years and realizing I can count on my hands how many time, how many times I've seen my family, right? Everyone's over there except my mom and sister. And I quickly realized, you know, this is if I, if I had this here in Jacksonville, right? I would probably have gone full steam ahead with this business because I had that with me and I just felt a missing piece of me was, you know, Was found there and I knew that me being younger Not so young anymore, right almost 30 next year And being single not having too many responsibilities. I want to create a sense of freedom And that's why a lot of that's it is why a lot of what we do is to create some sort of freedom and options To do what we want what I realized is I was constraining myself from doing the things I wanted to do Right having a team holding them accountable those things. They need you more than you think You And I wanted to build a lifestyle where I can freely operate this business anywhere around the world, right, with a connection of a laptop and a computer, while I can go spend time in Brazil with my family as long as I want, and I don't have to worry about You know, a meeting here, an argument that broke out between employees that you have to mediate. So small stuff like that, right, really takes a toll on you mentally. And I think the more that you can reduce that mental strain, the better, depending on where you're at. Cause everyone's so different. So I'm speaking for myself. And I just think for me, it's, it's just creating that freedom in a, in a way where I can scale back less, less volume, more higher margins type of models. What I'm going for. And I just feel really good about it. So that's, that's kind of what was the turning point for me is realizing those things.
Mike:Yep. I gotcha. And so, so what have you, what have you changed into your, in your business to allow it to be work from anywhere, lower volume, higher margin business?
Gabe:right. So what I've done is adopted a strictly virtual model, right? Where we're, and when I say virtual, right, we're just doing a single, single marketing, very niche data that we're going after and focusing in on that rather than casting a wide net and spending 20, 30, 000 a month in marketing, you know, cutting that down to damn near nothing. Thousand three thousand a month and just getting super niche with it. So that helps keeping a lean machine virtually. And also right now, what we're also doing is just kind of I'm in the middle of that transition period right now, but if we need to outsource it, the first thing I'll get on a call with somebody is like, Hey, our process is actually really simple. A lot of people do it virtually through the phone and we can gather information that way. However, if you prefer, we have an in person option with you as well. And what I'll do is I'll outsource that. I'll point out that the person first and if they're a really good lead. I'll outsource that lead over to a salesperson that we know here in town, right? Somebody like that and they'll close on it, right? And I'll pay them a percentage of the deal and I'm okay with that as long as, you know, we lock it up. It's we'll all create a disposition for it and pay them a piece of it. So that's how I'm, I've been navigating that virtual hump, right? And I think it's just setting up foundationally. The right pieces in place, people that you can count on when you're gone, which I've been doing in the past years, I have built relationships with people. I think that is important. I think for you to go into a market that you don't know and say, I'm in this thing, I'm virtual. And that's that I'm, I'm, I'm doing it. You're going to have a really hard time. I think if you start in person, create the foundation, show your face at these networking events, meet people for coffees, lunches, and you're putting a face to it, Boom, that's a whole different, that's a whole different ball game and with these relationships that you've built. So I would say the relationships piece of it has been the key, key factor. I know somebody I can call for help on a deal. Somebody can go swing by a house and I pay them or photos, all these things, you know, that goes into it. So, super that, that was, that was definitely been a big piece.
Mike:gotcha. And then you said kind of doing like niche marketing. You want to go into what you mean more specifically by
Gabe:Yeah. Yeah. We're targeting right now. A lot of list pendants. Right. So I'm kind of digging back to my roots cause that's what I started doing was just pre foreclosures and these auction houses. So what, what we're going after is strictly list pendants lists. So once that's filed, you know, we're, we're single line cold call dialing these people and we're exhausting every avenue possible to try to get in touch with them some way. Somehow we're calling relatives. We're finding ways depending on, How much they owe the spread in the deal, stuff like that, because I don't need as much volume to sustain the marketing costs, right? Cause that's always the battle.
Mike:So, are you doing the thing where it's like, as soon as they hit the list, like you're pulling the list every single day or is it?
Gabe:Yes. Yeah. So as soon as, yep, I have a day. So I do have a VA that's, that's pulling lists daily and uploading it into our system. And then I'm calling the next day, just super diligent work right now. Like I mentioned in the transition period. What I'm doing is I'm getting back in the weeds and I'm cold calling myself, right? And I want to do that for about a month or two months. So I understand the system and I can actually teach somebody how to do it too. So, just kind of drawing back, starting creating a different foundation to set me up for that lifestyle that I, that would help me and what I'm looking for. So.
Mike:And then what are the kind of filters you're gonna put in? Because you said, depending on what they owe, so what, what, like, what's the margin, I guess, the gross margin that you're looking for to say, Hey, it's worth giving this person a call.
Gabe:Yeah, we're not calling them unless there's 100k worth of equity in it. Minimum. Minimum. Minimum. Right? If they owe 200k, the house needs to be worth 3k. So that's kind of our, our approach right now. I'm okay with letting letting go of the other ones are smaller, right? That's kind of the approach with us.
Mike:do they post the amounts on the lease pendants? Or are you just taking the kind of educated guess from, you know,
Gabe:So we'll pull, I told them to make an educated guests based off of, we'll use like a prop stream, right. Or to have like an, an estimated amount. And it gives me a somewhat of an idea of what they're, of what they're, what they owe. And then also I told them, Hey, stay on top of these A few months later, because the final judgments come out after a while after those pendants filed.
Mike:you'll still attack them like as they get closer to the
Gabe:Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. If we're not able to get in contact with them, then we'll we'll move it into like a different section within our system of follow up in a month or two months and then exhaust them down the pipeline again. Right. So that's kind of been the approach.
Mike:Are you creating like a different kind of sales pitch for this since you're only focusing on one type of prospect or are you just kind of doing what you've always done?
Gabe:Oh, my sales pitch has been the same since it's, it's, Hey, I don't know the situation at all. And you probably have it figured out, but I'm calling it as courtesy. Yeah. I saw this house is scheduled for an auction or not scheduled for an auction. I'll say, Hey, I saw this, this house is in a pre foreclosure and I don't know if you have it taken care of. I just want to see if there's anything we can do to help. No, I have, I have it taken care of already. Do you? Okay, great. That's awesome. Did you apply for a loan modification? So right there in the first 10 seconds when they deny me I'll drop a word and disrupt their thinking pattern with the word that they're not used to hearing loan modification Right. That's something that they're not hearing all the time from callers and I said, okay, this guy knows what he's talking about And they'll say no or they'll say no. I haven't they'll give me a rebuttal. I'm working with an attorney great It's an in state attorney, right? Okay, cool. Make sure they know the local laws. And hey, look, if just out of curiosity, do you have a plan B if this doesn't work out? Like what are your goals? I just try to figure out their goals with the property first. And if they say, Oh, I want to keep it, you know, we can offer them a buyback or something like that. Or if they say, I want to sell it eventually, it's like, well, look, lucky for you. You know, we can give you time in the home depending on this auction schedule for, or we can, you know, buy it from you right now, get you set up in a new place and then go down those rabbit holes.
Mike:Are, are you finding that people tend to convert at a certain point in the cycle or,
Gabe:It's too early for me to tell because I've always gone after people that are in dire last minute. Decisions, right, where they have to make a decision last minute. They're a month out from the auction. They're a day out from the auction. The morning of, stuff like that, where they have to make a decision. Yeah, we've done that before. These people, it's still, still too early for me to tell. It's only been a few weeks. So I don't have a good answer for you yet.
Mike:okay.
Gabe:But a year from now when we do this again, I can let you know, you know what that's like,
Mike:I, I'd always, I, I'd be curious to see if people, anyone takes action early or if they'd all just kind of, they kind of
Gabe:they always, they always think they have it handled. The most important thing is I want to set it up to where we're front of mind as soon as I confirm that's your phone number. Good luck, you know, so yeah, so that's the, that's kind of the goal. Get in front of them early. If they're reasonable, you know, deals can happen. If they're not, it's okay. Stay on top of them because they'll come around at some point.
Mike:What are you doing? Anything like any kind of unique methods to stay on top of them? Besides just, you know, making a call every so often.
Gabe:No, right now it's just strictly manual because the, there's not that many that I have to worry about. So that helps, helps a lot.
Mike:Is it just Duval county or you're looking.
Gabe:I'm doing Duval and St. John's.
Mike:Okay,
Gabe:Yeah, those two.
Mike:and how many come out a month in those
Gabe:Not a ton. It's like I said, we just started doing it, but I mean there's like 47 people on our like list to tackle which is a decent size Decent amount of people to get super niche with you know, so Again too early to tell from for me to give you a good answer.
Mike:Yeah. Gotcha. And then like, you know, this is like kind of a big change for you. Cause back in the day you're running all in person appointments. Like, I guess what what have you adapted? Cause you've been doing it on the phone for a while. What have you adapted and doing on the phone about, about your process?
Gabe:In persons will always Be better My opinion, right? I think you'll get the bigger spreads. I think you for a volume based business do it on the phone Right, I think if you're doing a super niche like I am you can more often than not tie You can tie stuff up over the phone But like I said, i'm probably gonna have to outsource a lot of this stuff and that's okay i'm willing to do that. However, what I've, what I've noticed is the phone sale and the in person sale are completely different because they fold more, right, in person. The other thing is I've had to learn to get them to commit to a time and I say, hey, look, I have some availability tomorrow at 4. 30. They're like, yeah, give me a call tomorrow. And I'll say, hey, I don't know if I can, let me pull up my calendar really quickly. Give me just a second. My calendar is free as day, right? And I'll say, Hey, 4. 30, I have this availability. Can I, can I lock you in for four? And they'll say yes or no. Right. And that's if I let them get off the phone, right? That's if they have a valid. concern or valid reason, right? Because I try to, I try to notice it early on those objections or obstacles. But in the case that they do, I say, okay, 4. 30. In the event, I'm not able to get ahold of you. What, what would you want for me to do? What would you like for me to do? I'll just leave me a message. Okay. And I mean, what if I don't hear from you? Is this, is this even something you want to do? No, I do. Like leave me a message, text me, but I'm going to answer like, oh, you know, and then now they're like committed. They've convinced themselves. I have to answer this phone at 430 where it's like, all right, sounds good. I'll give you a call tomorrow. We do that with our friends, our friends all the time. Yeah, bro. Sounds good. Give me a call tomorrow. If you don't lock in a time, really, are you going to call you? You might call your boy, you might play phone tag with him. It might take you a couple of days, but in a, In a business where time is everything, time is money, time kills all deals, if you let time go by those things need to be done. So small things like that, that I've picked up on, you know, whereas in person, it's like, all right, I'll give you a call in a couple of days if, if they don't end up signing, it's hard to get them to commit to a certain, like, I'm gonna call you on this day.
Mike:well, when in person, you find it
Gabe:Yeah,
Mike:that,
Gabe:I, I find it a little tougher. It's like, all right, let me pull up my calendar. It's not, it's not something that I think of right away. It's like, oh, I just had a good real talk with them So, of course, they're gonna pick up my phone call when I when I when we when I give him a call But let me tell you something. That's not not always the case for sure
Mike:no, as a case,
Gabe:yeah. and a lot of follow up calls have changed before now because i'm switching it up What i've implemented is like hey, i'm honestly I was like, hey mike Yeah. Yeah, who is this? Look, this is gabe here at skylex. I'm honestly i'm trying to close out this file We have open for you We keep se we keep marketing to you, giving you calls, texts, and probably annoying you at this point. I'm trying to close this file. Can you help me out? Are you, did you end up selling or are you still, are you just holding off for now? Oh yeah, I sold. Okay, boom. Done. I'm holding off for now and Okay. If you don't mind me asking, what are you waiting towards a certain day? Are you waiting for something now? I get, I'm back in. I'm just trying to get back in, so that's how I get back in. It's like, hey, I'm trying, honestly, I'm just trying to close out this file. That verbiage has helped me a ton. Say, Hey, we have this file open for you. And I'm honestly trying to close it out to prevent calls from us in the future. Did you end up selling or did you put it off? So, or is this something you know, I am still, I actually spent all this week doing that and got rid of a bunch of leads. I've also revived a bunch of leads that way. So. It's, it's helped a lot. So if you have like a follow specialist that could do that with your salespeople stuff, old, your stuff from years that's old. I did that with a lot of my sales guys, like older, older leads that they don't touch. I'll go in as a third person. It's a lot, it's a lot tougher if you're the agent and having to follow up on your own leads and that person doesn't talk to you in a while, they're doing everything to avoid you anyway. So it's, it's easier when somebody else comes in and say, Hey, customer service type of phone call and say, Hey, look, okay. Your experience, blah, blah, blah. I'm trying to close this out. Okay, great. So that's, that's something I've implemented through the just phone follow ups virtually. It's helped a lot. So
Mike:What, what's your qualification criteria for moving to someone to like an offer on a phone call?
Gabe:urgency they don't necessarily need to be in super, super, super distress. Obviously people I'm targeting now will. Whether, whether they, whether they know that I know or not but there needs to be, there needs to have some sense of urgency to sell a house. Cause we happen so many times you give everybody exactly what they want, the price they want, when they want, they want to close by this, no inspection period. We'll give them the price and they go, ah, well, I mean, like, I don't really need to sell. And I'm like, okay, well, there's no point, right? So the biggest thing for me is you. Are willing to sell your house. You have to be willing to sell your house.
Mike:do you figure that out?
Gabe:I ask a lot of open ended questions and I address a lot of non committal language right away and I push for no a lot Right, uh in in this instance, I remember you talking about it with the sales train being left to the seller, right? That's kind of what I try to implement a lot on the initial phone call And i'll be like it sounds like you don't even need to sell this like why it's like No, I don't really need to or no, no, I do. Okay. So if in a nutshell, if all the stars align, right, if all the stars align and we get to that point, you're definitely ready to move forward, right? yes, no. So that's when I'll know if urgency is in place or not. Always being to the left, always going for no, things like that.
Mike:Gotcha.
Gabe:Yeah, that's helped a lot.
Mike:Gotcha. And the way you're handling, The objection of people not coming in person is you're going to outsource that to people who you already have relationships with locally, so you don't, you have the, those leads still stay as an option
Gabe:Yep. And then I say, and then I work it out with whoever I send out there and say, how was it? Do you feel like, do you want to follow up with them? Cause you can, if you didn't get it. If you want to follow up with them, you can, if not, I'm going to make a reminder. I'll make a reminder anyway, to follow up with you, to follow up with them about it or see how it went. But just so I know, right. So, that's typically how I've been going about that.
Mike:Yeah. What's your, what's your long term goal with this business?
Gabe:I think long term goal with this business, I have a two year plan to stack as much as possible, stack as much reserves as possible, really minimize expenses, personally and business wise, and just live, live very frugally and, Invest in something else. I don't see this as a long term business for the one man show, two man show, whatever you want to call it. Everyone's different, right? If you're, if you want to scale a team and build this big, bigger business and do it that way. By all means like that is that is a great way to do it if you know where you want to be personally for me I would say i'm a lost soul right now, right? So I wouldn't want to do those things I wouldn't want to do those things But what I know how to make I know how to make I developed a skill where i've learned to make good money in real estate and the goal is to start to Eventually also own some some properties is why I don't want to get into the single family space You But I'll figure out through time where I want to be, right? I have a lot of faith in I'll end up where I need to be.
Mike:What types of properties are you thinking about owning?
Gabe:I, again, I have no idea. I'm not there yet. Yeah, not there. Definitely not. I don't want a single family
Mike:Not single family, though.
Gabe:I definitely I am anti single family and I might get shit for this, but I just, do I think it can develop, you know, create wealth? And if done correctly over time, yes, a hundred percent. Please go for it. If that's you go for it. I have a extremely high, I need everything right in front of me right now. And I just think, For me, it's not for me. If I'm dealing with a couple vacancies and I only have 10 or 20 properties, I mean, that kind of fucks me. Right. You know, so, it's just not for me.
Mike:You know, a topic we were talking about offline a little bit was kind of, just kind of where things are in the market now. Like how how are you seeing things?
Gabe:Things are slow for sure. I think if you price them right, things will happen. You're having to give up a lot of concessions. So when you're listing a house, be ready to give all up to 4%. I had to give 4 percent to make a deal go through in seller concessions. That was like 17, 000 almost. But the problem was, Hey, do I give 17 now or does this thing sit? Cause it hadn't gotten. One offer in three, four weeks. And you have this hard money loan that you have to fulfill and pay interest on. And it's just like the, a lot of people, it's hard to put a price on you, the brain damage you do you take from dealing with closing on houses. There's just so many small nuances that I, I, for one underestimated really.
Mike:So are you switching with this new model to a wholesale only model, or.
Gabe:Yes. Strategic JVS and wholesales only, obviously if the house is the easiest flip, like put a roof in AC and you can list it back on the market the do it. I'm, I do have my, has to make a minimum spread of 50, 000 for me to even do the flip. So that's, that is my criteria when it comes to flipping virtually. Okay. So yeah, that's, that's kind of, it's just getting really intentional with what I want to say no to, what I want to say yes to, because I didn't have that before. Things would come across as like, yeah, 27, 000, like 30, yeah, let's do it. What I underestimated was, The things that have to go right on the back end while you own it, and you're paying the interest and making sure the utilities are on, shit gets delayed if you don't do it right, the brain damage that that does, it holds me back from building up a healthy pipeline.
Mike:Yeah.
Gabe:So. I would, I would do it through, if I could do it again, I would do it through strategic partnerships if that was what I wanted. That's not what I want, right? If my goal was to stay in Jacksonville and grow a real estate business, I wouldn't do it alone. I would do it through strategic partnerships that complement my weaknesses. So that's, that's how I would do that.
Mike:And then the, yeah. How are you differentiating yourself on the phone from other people? Because a lot of people are calling
Gabe:I speak English. I'm just kidding. I speak good English. I speak good English. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Not really but what's what differentiates me. I I try to drop I try to disrupt their thinking pattern That's kind of my biggest thing is but when I get on the phones, how do I not sound? Like everyone else When they call this person, right? So i'll drop words like loan modification case number Right. Hey, I have your case number pulled up and says here, you know You know U o x y z or says here you it just process just starts you have some time right like Let's figure out a plan or whatever the case might be i'll try to disrupt their thinking pattern some way somehow and that'll get somebody to actually listen to you.
Mike:I think that's a really good point. Just being different than just
Gabe:Yeah, i've always Don't even want to say it was taught. It wasn't really taught like I just guess I got so frustrated with Hitting a brick wall every time I was calling people that I was like, all right Something has to change and like how do I not sound like everybody else that's calling? Right. I was always trying to figure stuff like that out. That's how my brain works That's how I operate today in a few different ways. Like how can I differentiate myself? With what's out there which can kind of screw you sometimes because if what's working if it's what's working out there You should follow it, right? So there's always a there's always gonna be a con contrary argument to whatever point you bring up
Mike:yeah. What do you think has changed on the direct to seller side over the cap past, let's call it 18 months?
Gabe:I think we're in the middle. This is a hot take. I think the Direct to seller space Has been how do I say this to where it makes sense? I think Has been infiltrated by corporate, meaning the offer pads, the eye buyers, stuff like that. And you have these bigger companies right at scale. and it's gotten really expensive to compete in the direct to seller market. I think if, if you're an, and give a shout out to Ryan Rice, he dropped a really good video from one of his, his his meetups, which I was like a hundred percent nailed it. It was, It's getting really hard for wholesalers to just come into the space And just crush it right there. They're creating some sort of barrier to entry which is healthy for the for the industry It's a good thing, but you're going to have to spend Tens of thousands of dollars now to get a good deal because maybe one day cold calling goes away Whatever it might be these cold call centers, right texting. We're already seeing going away It's just getting really expensive to compete in the space, which means the cost per deal You Is getting more expensive, right? I, when I was doing a lot of marketing, I compared my numbers with the local. Homebuyer, reputed OB, I'll name drop you wherever you're at, man. And we're comparing numbers and it was pretty accurate. And it was really, really expensive. You know, his was cheaper than mine. He's been doing it for a long time and he's, he knows what he's doing. He's got the business side of things down. But he was saying, man, things have gotten expensive. Right. And mine was a couple grand higher. And I was like, well, good to know. Cause I remember when we were paying two grand. A per contract and we thought that was expensive, right? So I think marketing direct to seller in the mass in a mass Sense is changing a lot. I think we are going back to those days And this is I say this and I don't act on it, but I should Is I think there's a there's a lot of deals sitting on the mls that we're not capitalizing on what was the investor Sentiment, about a year and a half To three years ago if it's on the market, it's probably a shit deal, right? So think about all the investors that came into that space into the space during that time crushed it Right just doing a bunch of wholesale deals They're the man Myself included I say that myself included came into the space and I it was drilled into my head If it's on the market It's probably not a good deal because if it was a good deal, it would be gone. We're in a market now where prices are a little iffy. People don't know what anything costs. They're overpricing stuff, right? Because they just don't know. But the distress is there. More inventory is coming up on the MLS. And I think that the people who are winning are the guys MLS and Taking a deal or two a month. I think there's a deal or two a month. Maybe even three. Call me crazy. Maybe not that much, but I think there's a deal or two a month to be had on the MLS, talking to Realtors. And I think that's more effective because what you can do implementing these Realtors. Okay, I know this one doesn't work. Is there any other ones? Right. And you come across a badass realtor. That's happened before. I've done four deals off of calling this one realtor that called in similar with your dealer. They called in on a website. When I was with yellow bird and I talked to the realtor and she's like, wow, that was really easy. I actually have like three more situations where I told him to fix it up, but I think this might make sense. So
Mike:Ah,
Gabe:we did it that way. And I do think there's going to be more opportunities like that. I just think people need to look on the MLS. And I say that with ease, but I, I haven't done, I haven't picked up a phone once to call any realtor yet, but that's just my observation. And I'm not going to sit here and act like I know exactly what I'm talking about. I know my strengths and my strength is not numbers, data analytics, being that type of person. Absolutely not. But that's just what I see from a surface level.
Mike:Yeah. Gotcha.
Gabe:Yeah. Because
Mike:So, so then why go the direct to seller route
Gabe:I'm going extremely, extremely niche and I'm not spending a ton of money in marketing, right? My cost per contract. In fact, I'm trying to keep it at 1500 if that. If that, right, the cost of my deal is going to just depend on my whole operation pretty much. And I'm okay if I'm making 20 on the backend and I'm only spending barely anything on that. What, 10 percent of that, right? So, that's my kind of approach to that. And I will always I think I will probably at some point, once it's kind of flowing a little better, implement some more. On market stuff with realtors. So if you look at where we were In when inventory was shot up when I was just an eighth grader I should have been buying properties. I was so stupid There was all the deals
Mike:in middle school.
Gabe:Yeah, history repeats itself, right? It's all cycles and it's very cyclical I think we're going back to the the days where there's deals on the market and that's what it was back in from oa all the way up until 2010 You know, 2012, 13, and then people started doing direct to direct to seller here and there. And it really started picking up 14 through up until 2022, 23, right? And I think it really took off when the market took off and exploded, but I think we'll go back to those days. And I think finding deals is also in cycles. And I think that's the cycle that we're going to be in is just more direct to realtor Which I honestly, I might even prefer at this point, just talking to somebody that understands and is not emotional as, as emotional as emotional. Yeah, that's what I should say. But yeah, that's, that's what I, that's
Mike:a great day. What's cause you did, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of appointments in person over the year. What do you have to say to, or what tips can you share with people who are still running in person appointments?
Gabe:I would say you should be so obsessed with trying to perfect your craft and It's so surface. It's so basic, but it's something we just need to be reminded of one thing I always did was If you're not walking out of every appointment without if you're walking out out of the appointment without a contract Your first question should be how the how the hell how the hell could that have gone differently, right? What could i've changed? What could i've said better? You The minute I'm walking out the door is like what I could say, okay, I'm going to implement that. And I'm going to listen to a podcast here. They're strictly on direct to seller appointments. And I'm going to listen to that on the way back to the office. I'm going to see if there's any takeaways I could have implemented in this one. Oh, there was, okay. I'm gonna implement that in the next one. Something else pops up. Okay. I'm making sure that I'm doing everything in my power to get better. That was every appointment I went on every single one. Sometimes I even got the contract and I go, man, I talked way too much. Okay. I'm surprised I got that, right? If you're not your harshest critic and you're getting super complacent, then you're going to lose. You're going to lose. I would say that's my biggest, biggest pieces. You have to be thinking after every appointment, how could I have done that better? Because if you would have been, if you would've done it better, you would've got it.
Mike:Yeah. What, what would be your criteria today? If you were going on in person appointments, like what would make you decide to, okay, this is worth my time to go out there and
Gabe:Oh,
Mike:Hmm.
Gabe:it's that battle of overqualification versus, you know, somebody not disclosing their full The full reason with me, again, there just has to be a reason for them to sell. It can't be, and I say reason like urgency, there needs to be some sort of urgency, what I mean by urgency is usually there's pain sprinkled underneath that. Right. And they're not always going to disclose that on the phone, but if I can pull, they're not going to disclose distress sometimes on the phone, right? Somebody that's a little more savvy, they might not disclose it. We'll do everything we can to pull it out of them. We might not get that all the time. But if I get urgency and I go and they go, well, like, it's fine. Everything's fine. I just, I need to move. I want to move in 30 days. It's like 30 days. Like, is that, would you say that that's a big deal or a little deal to you to move in 30 days? Right. And they're like, Oh, it's a big deal. Like I am, I'm trying to get to X, Y, Z, or they'll might sprinkle something else if they say yes. And I'll go, okay, I think it's, I think I can convert them. But usually it's a lot of a judgment call. We had that at yellow bird a lot where there was the people that would set the appointments and then the closers would always, always butt heads. And they could tell you that till this day. It was like, oh, you sent me on a, A shit. A shit. A shit, a shit appointment. Right? I would say that. And then the person behind me, the next sales guy was like, I'll go on it and sometimes I'll close it. And I'll be like, fuck, I should have went. But that's, that's just how it is. There's no formula there. And it's hard to tell you this is exactly what has to happen for me to go on the appointment. It doesn't, just kind of judgment call.
Mike:Yeah. How do you feel about the model of having the salespeople and the people signing appointments, being the same person?
Gabe:I think it's good. As long as the person they, they are talking to has been somewhat vetted. Right. Somewhat filtered through some sort of something, something there. So they have to be filtered somehow, because if not, they're going to drop the ball. It's going to be a waste of time. Your sales guy is going to get extremely frustrated with talking to some dipshit that's taking away time from him closing other people and doing follow up calls. Or he might be out on an actual appointment while somebody is trying to call him, right? Or calling into like a postcard or something like that. So that's my Struggle, right? It's I would have done and I did do this a lot. Sorry, Pat, if you're hearing this one But they used to set the appointments. And no, he knows this. So do the people they knew I used to call before sometimes then when somebody calling Yeah, i'm interested in offer. Okay, great. We're gonna send somebody out and oh, I'd hate that Right. So what I do I call I get to learn a little more about the situation And say, Hey, I'm the one going to be meeting you out there. I just want to ask you a few quick questions so I can make sure you are best. I have the best information possible for you when I get there. You know, it's really important when it comes to, I know you're looking for an offer numbers, especially in this market are always changing. Are you look, I wouldn't want to give you a number now. And you think that that's what you're going to get. Cause you might, you might be able to get more depending on when you're actually looking to move. Is this the timeline? Does that sound like you, does that sound correct? You want to move around that timeline? Yeah, I do or oh, well, you know, I didn't tell her like I you know I just want to see what you guys would offer. Boom. You got me fucked up. I'm not going on that. I'll tell you Okay Hey, look I respect it and what I can do is I mean I can give you a range as to what things are going for right Now and where we can be for stuff, but I you know, I wouldn't even want to do that to you Because there's no point, right? It's only when you're ready. My best number is going to be when you're ready to, to move forward. And I wouldn't want to create some sort of a skewed image in your head that your house is worth X, when it could be worth more or less in a month or two, we're in a market where it's changing rapidly, fed drops, drops it, or spikes it. You're going to see it happen right away. So that's, that's stuff that all I used to sprinkle in and that helped a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. But there are going to be leads that fall through the cracks every like it's impossible to cast a net and have something in place where every single lead gets converted. That's why it drives me mad when I see business owners thinking. They can squeeze. Oh, why'd that leave? Well, sorry. That's just the way it went, right? That's normal. So that would be the biggest thing for sure.
Mike:Yeah. Well, there, I mean, there's definitely an element of timing.
Gabe:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Mike:You could call them a hundred times, but if someone
Gabe:I did a deal.
Mike:right time of day.
Gabe:I'm in the middle of a deal right now. We closed on it. We were holding it and selling it to somebody else. But the lady called and she's like, yeah, you know, I was talking to the company for eight months. And they even made an offer the guy was really great but I lost their card. I didn't have their number save and your card, you know was here and like I did research and You know, look, I'm, I'm, I'm finally ready to move forward. And I'm tired of just keeping this on the fence. Do you, can you give me a good offer? Boom offer there. Sorry, whoever that was, but that's a good example. Timing is legitimately everything.
Mike:Yeah,
Gabe:So it's the name of the game.
Mike:I think I teed it up for you for eight
Gabe:Oh yeah. No, no JV here. I think it was my home. Yeah,
Mike:know those guys. You guys, you got his number? Nope. I don't know.
Gabe:never heard of them
Mike:He didn't sign anything with that guy. Did you?
Gabe:Yeah, so that's kind of in a nutshell,
Mike:Yeah. Gotcha. So what else is in your plans over the next coming months?
Gabe:Get more in tune with with myself meaning I want to try a few different things. I want to take some time to myself Focus on myself truly and my business as well get it to where it's a consistent Number right figure out my kpis early on And and compare it with industry standards with people that are kind of doing similar models. And and kind of go go about it that way and refine the process and for me, I want to have the freedom and to Go spend a month or two in brazil or six or twelve as I am it's in my plans. So that's that's where i'm at right now. I don't have a good fancy answer for you But I will one day.
Mike:What are some of the stuff you have planned to get more in touch with yourself?
Gabe:I would say i'm spending a lot more time in my alignment sheet I'm just kind of trying to see what I want for myself and I'm trying to do more stuff by myself, meaning go, go to the beach by myself, go for a coffee by myself, go out to eat at a restaurant by myself, just be comfortable by myself and figure out who I am outside of business. A lot of my identity was wrapped around what I was doing. Which was all I'm this young entrepreneur guy and whatever. And that's what I was tying myself to, but I'm much more than that. And I want to be able to tune into that a little more. And the business is a by product that's not going to define who I am. So small stuff like that. I want to try different hobbies and. See what I like. Yeah.
Mike:I like it, man. We're getting close to the end here. And, you know, I have 2 questions I ask at the end, but maybe you've got some different answers than you gave at 18 months ago.
Gabe:I would love to re watch episode too. I'll probably go back and watch that.
Mike:Yeah, I don't remember your answers from last time.
Gabe:Ah, 23rd.
Mike:That's all right. They're probably BS anyway, right?
Gabe:Yeah.
Mike:So, first question is, what is the craziest or most uncomfortable situation you've ever experienced in a real estate deal?
Gabe:Oof. Man, I don't know if I'm past the statute of limitations with this one deal. But Oh, man. I don't even know if I want to say this. Our attorney would kill us, but I would probably say
Mike:say that one.
Gabe:no. Yeah, I'll use another one. What I would say craziest one is I had a gun pulled on me knocking on a pre foreclosure deal when I first started in Greencove Springs. I was like reading the signs, like this house is protected by Smith Wesson. I was like reading the fine print, like it was on the, the side mirror of the house. And out comes, gun pointed around me, they come around the corner, this old lady. Yeah, starts cursing me out of here, like cursing me. And I was like, Whoa. So, you know, my heart dropped to my stomach and I ended up talking to her. For three and a half hours, got us contract signed. Too much title issues. Yeah. Too much, too much title issues. Yeah. Too much title issues. It didn't work out, but that was definitely the craziest thing where I was like, I gone straight, like right here. And I was like, Oh, Okay. Okay. This is, this is, need to carry, but but yeah, that was, I would say that's, Yeah, Yeah, I know for sure. But yeah, that's been my crazy one of my craziest ones. There's there's plenty but that that's a crazy one
Mike:gotcha. The second question is if you could go back in time, give yourself one piece of advice When you were looking for your first deal, knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself?
Gabe:oh I would say Go ask that question to somebody who's doing it, right? Like I would have asked and That's a good question because I could give some some woo fucking answer, but I would say Make sure to find your first deal. I would say, find somebody who's doing it and ask them, Hey, what's the quickest way to get my first deal? And that's essentially what I did. I took forever to do that, but I went to a network and go to a networking event. I think this might've been my answer last year. I'll say, go to a networking event. Put your ego aside. I remember thinking I could do all this shit on my own and I didn't need to go anywhere. Go to a networking event, get uncomfortable, and go ask somebody, Hey, I'm brand new. What's the quickest way to get a deal? I'm willing to knock on doors. I'm willing to cold call. I'm willing to do stuff that people aren't willing to do. I just need a direction. Which is essentially what I ended up doing, right? I like a breakfast with Kyle. And then Pat handed me a list. And he said, Hey, these are people that haven't paid their mortgages that need to sell. And then in a week, I was like, Within a week, I got a contract to him again, ended up falling apart because I think he had mentioned it was something on his end. Like the, something wasn't pulled in time and they dropped the ball on it, but just that alone showed urgency, right? That willing to do it. So that's what I would tell myself is go to a networking event. Go figure out what people are doing in this current market to find a deal and let them know you're willing to do whatever it takes to get a deal. And you'll be surprised that you can go further with other people than just trying to do shit by yourself.
Mike:If someone were to walk up to you at a networking event today and ask you what's the quickest way to get a deal, what would you tell them?
Gabe:Let's say, hey, there's this thing called the foreclosure website. It's gold mine. I would say, no, in all seriousness, I would say you should go after tax, tax delinquent tax deeds. Right. People that are losing their houses to taxes and you should go after pre foreclosures, a hundred percent. Right. And if cats out the bag, everyone does it. A lot of people here in town go after those, but the difference is. That's a great way to go and do your first deal or first two deals, right? And it might take you a while, might not, but no one is consistent. The amount of effort it does take to consistently do a pre foreclosure deal, you're going to create burnout for yourself within a year or two years, max, right? Knocking on doors for a whole two years straight, that takes a different type of person, you know, and then you start making some money and you'll graduate and maybe you spend a little bit on marketing if you do decide or whatever. But if you're ground, first way to get a deal, I have no money, go after tax delinquent properties, people that are the tax deed auction or the foreclosure auction, because those people have to sell, those people have to sell. Whenever I'm in dire need of a deal, I'll go, I'll pull up and I'll, I'll start hitting the phones myself. I'll say, Hey, these people need to sell in 30 days or less. One of these people have to make a decision. Let me position myself. That's, that's what I would say. Go after those two.
Mike:Cool. I think that's a great piece of advice. Well, thanks for being on the show again, man. This is
Gabe:For sure. I appreciate it. I love doing these.