Real Estate Game Changers Show
Real Estate Game Changers Show
From College to Closing: Mastering the Direct-to-Seller Approach
This week on the Real Estate Game Changers Show we have Cody Dover, based in Little Rock, Arkansas. Cody shares how he entered the real estate world at 23 through a course inspired by Rich Dad Poor Dad, which cost him $17,000 but ignited his career. He emphasizes the importance of networking and building trust, detailing his early struggles with traditional banking loans and how discovering private money transformed his business model. By 2020, Cody had transitioned into a sales and marketing approach, which drastically increased his deal flow and helped him close over 350 deals.
Welcome to the real estate game changer show. I'm your host, Mike McKay based in Jacksonville, Florida, and each and every week we do this show with people who are changing the game of real estate all over the country. If anyone is in the Jacksonville area and they're in sales and you're thinking about getting into real estate, uh, we are looking for people for our acquisitions team. Uh, send me a DM on Instagram if that sounds like you. And this week on the show, we have Cody Dover. Cody, welcome to the show.
Cody:Hey, what's going on?
Mike:Doing well, man. Uh, for the people who don't know you, could you tell us a little bit about how you got into real estate and how that's led you to where you are today?
Cody:Yeah. Uh, I would love to. And thanks, Mike. Uh, I'm 30 right now and I started real estate when I was 23 and, uh, back then and we started, uh, with a course rich dad, poor dad, and that course, uh, luckily was really the, the trigger point to start everything for us. Um, there wasn't really much content or value in the course as much as was just starting. And, you know, getting into real estate, what I found that most people struggle with is that starting point. And so, uh, buying a course, we spent like 17, 000 to get into it. And what that taught us was to go out and network and build the network of people who's already doing what you want to do. And so, uh, from there we bought the course. We went into the local RIA meetups and whatnot. And from there we just, uh, started gaining knowledge, building a network, getting trust, building identity with people. And we bought our first house in 17, 2017. And then we ended up buying four more, uh, in the first five months. And so we actually got turned down by the bank going for our sixth property. And this was back in 2017. We didn't know what we were doing. We were just doing the traditional, put an offer in, on the house, on the market, and off you go. Well, we got turned down from the bank, and we didn't realize that there was this whole other world out there of private money. And so, uh, this is 2017, we're still kind of scratching the surface, and then we said, Oh, well if we can go buy a course in residential and buy five houses and make it work, Well, what else out there could we go purchase and look into? And so from there, we were able to kind of get off track since we got turned down by the bank, going out there, the sixth property, we said, Oh, well, I guess we can't do this. Let's go find something else. And so we explored everything, multifamily syndication. Uh, multi level marketing and all this different stuff that we call the shiny object syndrome. And so from there, we were able to, uh, um, scratch the surface on multifamily and apartments and syndicating and raise the money. And we did that for about a year and that didn't go anywhere. Uh, so it wasn't until about 2020, uh, the end of 2000 or 2019, we ended up picking Uh, the residential game back up, but this time it was with a different approach. Uh, we came in with more of a sales and marketing, uh, approach than just, uh, make an offer on the market kind of thing. And that's what will really open up the game for us was understanding that you actually have to do sales and marketing to produce deal flow. And while that's meaningful is because we're able to produce deal flow at 50%, 60 percent off discount, um, versus back when we started buying property on the market in 2017, you know, you're paying 80, 90 cents on the dollar. Well, when you produce your own deal flow, so long that you're building up your skills and capabilities, you can now negotiate better deals, get access to better deals that otherwise you wouldn't have. Um, so the start of 2020, that's really what kickstarted everything for us. And, um, I have a crazy stat here. We, we quit our jobs in the 19 and beginning of 2020, we went into it full time and you know, everybody's used to having that W2 safety net and getting paid every two weeks. Well, it was a scary moment for us, you know, we didn't know what to do. Like, Oh, no. And then COVID comes. I'm like, Oh, dang, you know, nobody, nobody could expect what to happen and what would happen during the COVID years. Um, but we had only did like four deals, I think the first six months of 2020. And we're questioning ourselves. We're like, well, Is this something that we can still do? Like what's going on? Why aren't we making this happen? Um, fast forward, we've done 350 plus deals now since 2020, and we ended up doing another 54 that same year. So in six months time we did four deals, and the rest of six months of that same year, of 2020, we did 50. And so something had obviously changed and what changed was a few things. And that's something that I would like to, to get into on, on this call, just to maybe help other people out there getting going, trying to start out,
Mike:Well, that was actually going to be my next question. So what changed?
Cody:you know, there's a thing called commission breath and, uh, and, and sales people all about all salespeople are is getting the commission and getting the sale closed. Well, what happened was two things. One, little to us, we didn't know that we were building up a pipeline. Um, you know, we're entering in this game as a sales marketing company now, and we're building up a pipeline of prospects. And so we realized, Oh, the four people that we have closed, they came in our system six months ago. So we realized the whole time we're building up a pipeline of people that we had to continually to follow up with. You know, a lot of times you think that you, you call somebody, you want to get the deal that day. It's not until you realize and, and reflecting back that we saw that all these people come, come from four months, six months earlier, that we had to continue to follow up with build trust, increase our identity with, and also ultimately just help, you know, be of service to help their situation out instead of having commissioned breath and looking out for yourself to get a. Get a profit from the deal. It's like, how do you help this person out? And that's really what comes for us
Mike:Gotcha. So at this point, you know, you've done a couple hundred deals in your business. Um, What were some of the major challenges along the way as you were scaling that up?
Cody:dealing with the up and down, um, the inconsistent, you know, one month you might have five deals, the other month you might have 20 deals and it was the inconsistent, uh, that really had to, like, we had to keep ourselves of, you couldn't overspend and marketing on a couple of months knowing that the next couple of months you might be down. So the biggest thing is just really staying with the fundamentals of what's got you here. And what got us here is just our beingness of who we're being to the sellers and the value that we're able to provide. Um, and also it increased our trust. Uh, so like with the, the local marketplace, uh, we're out of Little Rock, Arkansas. Um, so I'll try to portray ourselves as just a local mom and pop guy, blue jeans, white t shirt down the street. Um, you know, we're not this big corporate company. And so the challenges we face was the inconsistent effort of the up and down. Um, and then, and now today it's competition. It's the, the out of state wholesalers are coming in and they're, they're getting houses locked up under contract for a retail price and trying to sell above retail and they're having to back out and cancel on these, these sellers. And it's, it's just causing a bad look for, for the people doing it right.
Mike:Hmm That's something we can hit on is so that's something we run into a lot in Jacksonville, too And we have some strategies and I'm curious to hear yours is how do you differentiate yourself? Because you know, like you're going to come through, obviously you're going to come through because your offer is at a number that makes sense to sell the property at or buy the property at. How do you differentiate yourself from the person who's offering them the full retail price with wholesale, you know, wholesale terms that ultimately backs out?
Cody:Yeah. And that's a good question. You know, it's, uh, it all comes down to perception. Um, have you ever seen value do, can you go to the store and buy value? Can you put value in your back pocket? Uh, the answer is no value is an abstract notion. And so with that, it, it values produced with assessments made by your listener. So if I'm the speaker, you're talking to a seller in a situation, um, they're assessing me all along the way, just as much as I'm assessing them, if they're a qualified prospect. And so, um, what we've done to separate ourself is really just be powerful in our narratives and then how we speak and talk to sellers, but also expose them to different options. You know, you can't get anybody to do anything and, and sales and real estate. We're not trying to get you, we're not trying to get one over on you. We're trying to just add value. And so at the end of the day, they can feel that sincerity and, uh, the, the local, just a mama pop feel of. Um, you know, we may not be your best fit, but here's what you can do. Um, you can go to the market and list that house, but most time, you know, sellers don't want to incur that cost. Um, so understanding the seller's needs and concerns that they're in, um, allow us to navigate a better conversation. That's more quality. And in turn, I think that produces a more triggering response on their end to open up and, and to build that trust that you're looking for, um, when you're going against somebody who is offering 20, 000 more, but they don't trust that person.
Mike:Are you guys going out to the homes, or are you also making offers on the phone?
Cody:Yeah, it's, it's in between. Um, in 2021, we ended up, um, doubling our productivity by sending out somebody to go take pictures for us. And then we would just negotiate and talk over the phone. Um, but when things are slowing down, we got back out on the field to go out there, to talk with sellers. Uh, but it's still a mix right now. Um, some houses I don't go to and see some, I go sit in the living room and have a conversation with an hour for, with a seller. Um, that's a good question. I mean, it's at the end of the day, it's a numbers game and, uh, I don't want to waste people's time on waste hours, but also I want to disqualify too soon either, and so it really just depends on the ones that we go out to. Um, what the situation is for the seller, how much they owe, um, if they owe too much now, I'll talk to him about doing a subject to, and just taking over the loan. And usually what I'll do is explain why, um, why it's too much for us as a flipper, but here's what your options are as a seller. If you're wanting to maybe do it yourself and go on the market. Um, so our goal is, you know, we're not trying to get anybody. Our goal is to provide value. Along the way and understanding that everybody is not the best fit for us. And we're not everybody's best fit either.
Mike:Yeah. What were some other challenges that you faced along the way of scaling the business? Hmm. Hmm.
Cody:Other challenges we face, uh, the challenges we face is you get people coming in offering retail price for home. That's that's as is at a lower price. And so trying to combat that in the competition is a challenge in itself. And that's something that we still face every day is, you know, a seller wants to be offered 120 on their house from, or they want 120 and people are giving that all day long, but then not fulfilling on the contract. And so it hurts the reputation of people like us who are doing it right. And are explaining to the settlers the value of their house. Yeah, you can get this, but you have to go through that to get this.
Mike:Hmm. Gotcha. I mean, how do you, like, what else have you done to kind of handle that issue and overcome it?
Cody:Get better at speaking. Um, at the end of the day, we have a website that brings in a lot of leads. And we've been able to get on TV and be on commercials. So that's helped with local identification. Um, so essentially just being, being a character in the marketplace that's providing value, I think will go a long way versus just trying to be, uh, the skilled salesman and superior in that way where you're trying to get somebody. Um, because I've been in the day, you know, I may go on five appointments a week and maybe only get one or two. Now, I'm not a fit for everybody and they know that going into it. So it's really just being transparent. Um, and I think a lot of people can, um, identify trust with that.
Mike:What does your team look like at this point?
Cody:Um, I'm a lean team. I like to keep it lean. Uh, I have, uh, one junior acquisition guy and I have a VA, uh, in Bangladesh and he does all of the admin office kind of work. Um, and then I have a cold caller who just calls on areas that we'd like to buy in and initiates the conversation. And then I have a property manager. So, um, really a team of four, maybe five. Um, that's pretty much it. Uh, I don't want to get too big and overhead on labor. Uh, I'd rather find strategic partners and, and do maybe bigger deals like land development, um, is, is what I'm after right now.
Mike:And, uh, the property manager is because you've kept a lot, a good amount of these as rentals throughout the business
Cody:Yeah. Yeah. So we, we cherry pick the best deals, um, and, and keep for us and we'll flip it or keep it as rental property. Um, and so ultimately I want to build in house property management and continue to build a portfolio, uh, of homes that we self manage.
Mike:Gotcha. What made you decide to do the management in house versus getting like a third party to do that?
Cody:Control, um, control and influence. Um, we're big on communication and tenants like communication. Uh, I would speculate they, they want to know that their, their requests are being taken care of. And so having a third party title or a property management company, I mean, they're just not going to take the same care that you would as a manager. Um, of your own portfolio. So really just the control and ability to influence and cast down the, uh, kind of the Chick fil A model, just the quality, I guess.
Mike:Yeah, fair enough. Um, and then. With the team of that, like, how do you handle construction? is that
Cody:Um, that's me, um, having a good contractor. Um, I mean, at the end of the day, all businesses, uh, is. Coordination and a production of coordination and communication. And so I don't necessarily have to be at the property all the time to check up on it. I can request pictures. Um, I can also stop in after hours. Um, so flipping a house is not too time consuming for us. Um, our contractors know what we're looking for, what we're up to. It's just one walk through on the front end to point out what we're going to do with this house. And that's it. So it's really more of the practices that we've set up in place to double that productivity there.
Mike:Yeah, what kind of practices, um, have has allowed you to kind of double that productivity besides the one you obviously mentioned before?
Cody:Well, it's just the, uh, the communication of, of having pictures, uh, setting lock boxes on the property so that you're not having to physically go over there each time. That's a practice. Um, communicating, sending pictures, having a standard of what you're going to do to each property, this color paint. Um, these floors, this kitchen, this bath. So just having a standard operation, um, just, uh, I mean, it allows for more freedom and flexibility on the backend when it comes time to managing it.
Mike:Yeah, and how were you able to because I know it's a struggle, um, for some people, you know, we've also been pretty fortunate as well that we've always had great contractors, but I'm curious how you went about finding your great contractors.
Cody:Yeah, there, uh, some will come to us just from our, our identity and then others we've reached out to. Um, but for the most part, um, I'm, I'm always looking to add talent to the team. Um, so let me backtrack. You had asked, you know, what does your team look like? Um, one of my sales guy, Jack, he, I met him in Uber. He was my Uber driver. Um, and we just kicked it off and started talking and he had just graduated college and working at an insurance company for commission only. So I knew that I could at least compete with that offer and, you know, do some kind of salary plus commission. And so with Jack, uh, it's always identifying and looking out for talent where you can see it and then bring on board. Because ultimately I want a lean team. And more so have strategic partners in different domains to where I'm partnering up larger transactions versus just having a Huge overhead of staff.
Mike:Yeah. How did you know that he would be a good sales guy when you were, when he was your Uber driver?
Cody:Yeah, that's good The fact that he was able to take a position out of college on commission only without a base Shows me that he was willing to go get it. I mean, I mean, that, that, that should say a lot on somebody that's willing to go get that commission only job, um, versus having base and he could talk well. He was articulate. And so it was just, uh, one thing led to another
Mike:Um, and then you were saying you kind of cherry pick the, you know, the rentals and flips you guys want to do. And, you know, I'm guessing it, is it wholesale the rest for the most part or
Cody:wholesale, no bait, buy and hold flip. Yeah.
Mike:gotcha? What makes you decide to keep a property as a rental? Like, what's your criteria?
Cody:Yeah. I really don't have a set criteria. Um, there's two properties that here I have currently right now that I was That I'm going to end up keeping. Um, so it really just depends on the situation, how much revenue I have coming in this month versus how much do I have in the pipeline. Um, so there's no one set standard as to like, I don't have a formula or anything that I use. It's more of a, where am I at today and what's in the pipeline?
Mike:Yeah, and then you were talking before about, you know, some marketing stuff like you do, um, you know, if you got your website that you built up a lot, uh, you're doing some stuff on TV, like you want to talk a little bit more in detail because I mean, you're, I mean, you've done. 300 plus deals. I mean, that's, you know, you must have done quite a bit of marketing to bring in all those leads.
Cody:Yeah. Um, uh, I guess what's your question around that? You just want me to expand on the inbound.
Mike:Yeah. Like, you know, everyone's kind of got a different approach to it. Um, you know, why did you decide to go with the channels you did? And like, maybe how did you, how has that shifted over the course of your business?
Cody:Yeah. So the channels, you know, in marketing, you have inbound and outbound and we've realized that inbound is a more lower cost way of time and energy versus going out and trying to reach people who. May not even be a market for your offer. Um, so focusing on inbound has allowed us to increase our time that we have to then go create new offers or design new practices to be in. Uh, so inbound, we've, we started out outbound, uh, cold call texts, you know, all that, um, but as we grown, we've positioned to more inbound only. So we're now we're building up an identity marketing, um, to where we have people come into us. And for me, I would rather work with somebody that's, um, has sought us out to seek us out with situation they're in to sort for us to help solve their problem, um, versus going call and following up people who may be interested.
Mike:Um, You mentioned there, like, you know, you've kind of created this identity. You want to expand a little bit more on that?
Cody:Yeah. I mean, you know, you you've heard the saying in business, people do business with people they know, like and trust. And I think trust is a factor in a lot of transactions. I mean, you had asked something earlier I was going to hit on, uh, like one thing, one question we ask sellers is like, how would you know you're working with the right buyer? How would you know you're working with the right party? Um, because this person may be offering you 20, 000 more, have they even seen the property? Are they out of state? Do you trust them? How come? And so trust is, is a big factor knowing for me, but that's. I don't want to have to look over my shoulder at the end of the night to realize, and, um, I want to make do right by everybody and to everyone so that I can sleep at night. And so just building up that trust and identity, just, it goes a long way and it helps me when I'm the one negotiating or talking with the seller. Um, to have that identity with them so that I'm not going against the grain, I guess, against, to make it harder for me. Um, and, and it's okay. It's, we're okay. Not having a deal so long that I can help you and provide you options and expose you different ways to go about this. Then we're good. Um, you know, I understand that I'm not going to get every deal, but at the end of the day, you know, we're a for profit enterprise. And at that same token, we also provide superior help. Now, not everybody needs our help. And there's also people out there who don't even know our help exists. So at the end of the day, if I can continue to build an identity, those people may start to know us or our services will sell themselves.
Mike:Yeah. And what like strategies have you used to create and build up that identity for your brand?
Cody:Uh, accomplishments first, um, in order to have some sort of trust, uh, one must produce accomplishments. Like you don't go to your doctor. And do a hip surgery. If your doctor hadn't been through doctor school, same with flying a plane, you don't get on a plane if, uh, if the pilot hasn't passes piloting license. I don't know, but, um, so the, the trust comes through accomplishments and our accomplishments have allowed us to build that identity to showcase like, Hey, we can, we know how to think and act in this capacity, in this situation, uh, we can do this.
Mike:And when you say accomplishments, that means like homes bought or is that like, you know, awards won or, you know, local, like what do you mean specifically?
Cody:Yeah, I mean, that's good accomplishments just I guess the the number of people we've been able to help out of a situation that they Find our offer superior.
Mike:Hmm. Gotcha. And then how do you, how do you use that to kind of like brand for like the future so that you kind of get more people coming your way if you, if you guys have done that,
Cody:Yeah, I haven't really done that to Satisfactory, I'd like to do more of it
Mike:yeah.
Cody:but it more so just highlighting case studies to scenario situations like sellers that we work with in the past and providing a case study to show what happened here and
Mike:Gotcha, okay. And then does that like, does any of that kind of tie into your marketing in terms of building your brand? Are you doing any stuff around that or
Cody:Um, you know, I'm a one, kind of a one man show pretty lean. So I haven't had the time to build that out as much as I would like to. Um,
Mike:Yeah.
Cody:yeah,
Mike:It sounds like you guys have done pretty well and I took a look at your website for the show. It sounds like you guys do fairly well in driving traffic to your, to your website for
Cody:yeah.
Mike:That's something that people, it's been a while since we talked about on the show with someone. But how have you guys gone about, you know, getting your website ranked and being able to, you know, drive a lot of traffic and leads through that?
Cody:Yeah. It's, it's just having a really good digital marketer guy that knows what he's doing or gal. Um, we're fortunate to have Josh Everly at data point. He's been a family friend of ours, um, since we started. And so when we started this, we started with PVC and SEO. As our main channel, um, and then venture it out. And so we've had time on the clock. Like it takes time to grow your SEO. Um, I mean, we've been doing it for, since 2019 now. So four or five years, we've been doing content articles, adding, uh, uh, DR links with higher DR rankings to our website. So it's just a little tactics that he knows what to do. But it's just hiring somebody and that expertise,
Mike:Gotcha. For the listeners who maybe don't know what a DR link is, can you explain what that is?
Cody:just a domain authority, um, like Google or Amazon or like Facebook or rocket mortgage, they might have a higher ranking, uh, authority. So when the Google rather, uh, algorithm notices, Oh, you got a link back from right. The mortgage. Oh, you must be trustworthy. And so we're getting credible links built up, um, uh, that, that like I'll link back to our website.
Mike:Gotcha. Okay. What's your vision for the business for the next three years?
Cody:Um, right now I'm going through a land development. Uh, we're building a subdivision. And so, uh, what I'm after is doing less for more. Yeah. So, um, less for more, um, uh, with us creating a more of inbound company, I see ourselves going into the commercial land development space while continuing to keep afloat or keep active. The current leads come to us. And helping out where we can. Um, but ultimately what I want to do is, is build a portfolio, um, have it free and clear and, and earn a lot of active income through various projects.
Mike:Gotcha. You want to talk a little bit, how that deal came together, the deal that you're working on right now?
Cody:Yeah. So, uh, I'm in a mastermind called collect the genius and there's some guys in there who are doing land stuff. And so I've been, um, privy or, or interested in looking into, Oh, you know, what are they doing? And so, uh, I had lunch with a gentleman who. Is well accomplished here in Little Rock. And he said, Hey, you need to target these areas, um, for, for, to, to build subdivisions and houses. And so I just sent out letters to people in that area and got a call back. Um, so I just applied the same fundamentals of what I do in single family and just copy and pasted that to another domain, which is land. And so I was just marketing to people with 10 to a hundred acres. Um, and so, uh, through the CG network, I was able to acquire knowledge around, you know, how to back into the numbers and understand lot costs and development costs per lot. And we're able to get 12 acres under contract. We're going to develop 30 lots and sell to a DR Hort.
Mike:Wow. Okay. Gotcha. So where are you? And I'm not that familiar with land development. Like, where are you in that process currently?
Cody:So we've gone through the preliminary approval process with the city, um, and, and the contract is contingent upon getting approved by the city and also getting an LOI by the in, uh, the in builder, D. R. Horton. Um, so we purchased the land come November 1st, but we've already got a plat drawn and a city approval process for the plat, which is the 30 lots and where they're situated on the land. Um, and so once we're good with that. We'll buy the land and then start the development side.
Mike:Gotcha. So when you say start the development side, what like specifically happens once you get to that stage?
Cody:So we got to clear out the land, uh, make it level, flat, bring in the utilities, the water, the sewer, um, infrastructure, sidewalks, gutters, roadways, um, so basically getting it shovel ready for the builder to come in and build. And, you know, for the longest, uh, I'm, I'm still new to this as well, I'm learning the ins and outs, but for the longest, You know, I didn't realize that there was a distinction between a developer and a builder. The developer is the one who tears up the dirt and brings in the infrastructure. And the builder is the one who builds vertical.
Mike:Gotcha. So you guys are going to take it all the way through the horizontal construction stage, but you already have like a, uh, now a wire, maybe something even more serious in place from the builder. So you kind of know you're good on it
Cody:Yeah. Yeah. So all we're basically doing is fulfilling on it. Uh, we'll come in and fulfill on the work to bring in the subdivision, to bring it about, and then they come in and build. So we've got an LOI in place and what that does is help the bank. So when we go raise money or go get debt on this. It shows a promising, um, builder to back us up, I guess, to the banks.
Mike:Yeah, that was going to be my next question. Is there a way to raise money, you know, with banks for that type of, uh, that type of deal?
Cody:Yeah.
Mike:interesting. Gotcha. Um, what made you explore, explore that route?
Cody:Well, you know, um, I'm after doubling my income. And so in order to double my income, uh, I must change the practices that I'm in and the offers I make and the help that I provide. And so that was an effort to increase, uh, what I'm after is more for less. Um, we've done a hundred plus deals in a year, and I would like to, to not do that type of volume. I'd rather do 10 to 20 deals a year, but make those really big deals.
Mike:what are the challenges that come with, with doing that type of volume, 100 plus deals a year?
Cody:Uh, a lot of emotional wear and tear. Uh, I'm sure you experienced this. And if you're closing deals, you know, you get to the week closing. There's just a lot of, um, oh noes and what ifs and, and things that could happen. And it's just a lot of stress and a lot of emotional wear and tear on your body. Uh, to go through something like that when you're doing, you know, 20, 30 deals a month.
Mike:Yeah. Gotcha. Um, and then. You know, obviously things have shifted a lot. I mean, I don't know your market, but things have shifted certainly a lot here and call it the last 20 months or so. What have you changed in your business? If things have shifted in your market?
Cody:Um, that's good. I mean, it's shifted and where it shifted is the activity of, um, uh, buyers buying. So, it's easy to buy a house right now, but it's harder to sell a house. So, what shifted is, well, Um, I've, I've got to stay to the fundamentals and, and the fundamental is so long that you buy the house right on the front end, um, then there's multiple exits on the back end. And so understanding and, and even conversating with sellers, like, Hey, we're, we're not in that kind of market now, um, prices are going down, not up. And so I usually bring an example to what I'm facing on the market. I'm, you know, I have five houses listed on each week. I'm having to decrease the price. And, and I'm just bringing that forth that narrative forth for them to listen to, um, to hear like, Hey, like you can let this sit, but prices are going down and up. And so what we've done just to combat that is just get better prices on the front end.
Mike:What has changed on like, The wholesale disposition side for you guys.
Cody:Nothing really. Um, I don't really market properties. I don't, um, I don't parade people through. I have, uh, maybe two or three investors I work with and I'm one of them. Um, so I essentially wholesale myself the product or the property. Um, and if I don't, uh, then I sell it to one or two other investors or a hedge fund. Um, so I really don't work with a lot of buyers. It's more so me and a few other people.
Mike:Gotcha. What, um, you know, cause there's people who are the total opposite of that. All right. What, what made you decide to kind of take that approach versus having a million buyers and
Cody:Yeah, it's the cost. It's the cost of the time, energy and bandwidth and now structure. Now I have to have somebody on that, in that role and that seat to now go after people with needles in the haystack to maybe make 5, 000 and it's just not worth it. Like, um, we realized that the more quality, quality eats quantity. Um, and so that's something that I just made up, but it's, it's kind of where business mission is. We want to have quality properties, quality product, quality people, whether that's sellers, buyers, investors, whoever. And, um, I forgot where I was going with that. Uh, yeah.
Mike:Oh, we're talking about, you know, having a million, you know, a million buyers on your list
Cody:Oh yeah. The cost. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll tell you something on that, you know, being a Little Rock, uh, for some reason, whoever selling all these courses on YouTube and whatnot, and they're bringing up Little Rock, we have an influx of new wholesalers coming in. It's easy to get properties locked up, but it's hard to sell. And so these people are exhausting all their resources, their time, the energy, their efforts to sell a property they can't sell.
Mike:Yeah, gotcha. And you said, um, you mentioned like you also sell some stuff to hedge funds. Are they still kind of active in, in little rocker? Gotcha.
Cody:Um, so that, that hadn't changed. The retail market is the only thing that slowed down is the retail activity and buyers on that side.
Mike:Besides obviously getting the homes at a better price. Are you changing anything? Um, You know, on the selling side or construction side to help those homes sell better besides just pricing them more aggressively.
Cody:Yeah, making them a little nicer. Um, instead of just doing paint and floors, now you might redo the kitchen and bathroom, add some granite countertops, and do different pools, um, fixtures, I'm doing that, fans, lights, um, so I think you're just getting it at a better price, um, better quality and sell for a lesser price.
Mike:Gotcha, makes sense. Um, I've noticed something that you said. It's kind of been like a theme throughout the call is like, you seem to be very conscious of kind of the effort that you're putting into different things. Like, you said a few times, like, you know, that's kind of why you shifted to inbound and you were talking about also on the disposition side. Like, you know, that's a lot of like, energy, right? If you do it that way, I, I'm curious, like, how, how did you, I guess, like, how did that become a theme and kind of what you do?
Cody:Yeah, uh, that's good. Good question. I mean, for us, it's Being intentional, um, business is an, an avenue to create money. And we, we know growing up that, Oh, money's not everything. Well, it also pays for our, our bills and, and future. Um, so money is something, but I'll agree. It's not everything. And so for me, I want to have a lifestyle and have, uh, the space and the time to create, to design, to build, to give back, to be a father, to be a husband and a family guy. And so for me, it's just, um, it could be lazy. It could be strategic. Um, but I think it's a blend of both. And it's both being lazy and being strategic at the same time to create, uh, uh, an income, uh, at a low cost.
Mike:Have you always had that mindset of kind of being very conscious of like, kind of where you put your energy or was there a point in your life or career that made they made you make that shift?
Cody:Yeah. So I'm, I'm involved, uh, not only in my with CG, I'm also involved in another discourse called Aji and Aji is more around business fundamentals. And what that's done is orient and kind of reshape how I think and act. And it's allowed me to see, Um, where I can design by intention. And, and not just react to the day to day and what everybody else is doing.
Mike:Cool. When did you, when did you get involved in that?
Cody:Uh, 2020. So, uh, I met a guy at a poker table in Vegas at new year's and, uh, he was, it was like, I had stayed up all night. We, we left the party, the club, whatever. Uh, and I went to go play poker at 1 a. m. And so I started at 1 a. m. The guy that I met, he was just waking up at 6 a. m. to come down to, to, to play. And, um, so we met up with him the next morning for coffee and just talked to him. And he said, Hey, you should look into this. And this was Aji. And at the time, you know, we didn't know this guy. We didn't know his, his credentials, accomplishments or whatever. I just met him at the poker table. And so he said, look into this. Well, we didn't, you know, he was going to look into that. We don't know him. Two, three months later, we checked in with him. He said, Hey, did you look into it? No. Well, now that he's brought it up again, okay, maybe we can look into it. Don't mean we have to do anything. Um, and so we, we did, we looked into it and we bought it and it's like another course, uh, in 2020. And so their claim is double your productivity value and income. And so, um, in order to double. Well, you can't be in the same practice you're in last year. If you're earning say a million dollars in order to earn 2 million, you, you, you just cannot be in the same practice there. You something's got to change your networks, knowledge, effort, the practices that you're in strategies. And so orienting that around how we operate in the business has helped us be more intentional,
Mike:What are some things you changed after you kind of went through that, that program? What were some of the first things?
Cody:uh, noticing, really just noticing where we're at and what we're up to. And, and one of the big things was on productivity side was sending out somebody else to go on property visits for us instead of ourself. Um, because we knew if we're going out to properties and we're losing time on the sales floor, we're calling new prospects. Uh, so that was one thing that changed. It's really just an orientation, uh, a way to see things differently.
Mike:Yeah, gotcha. Well, uh, we're getting close to the end here and there's always two questions I like to ask at the end of the show. The first one is, uh, what is the craziest or most uncomfortable situation that you have ever experienced in a real estate deal?
Cody:I was on the phone with, uh, I was on, on, uh, with some partners and it was, um. A phone call and I pulled up to my rental property that's supposed to be vacant. The tenants had just left and there's a guy standing at the door. And so I'm like, Oh dang, what is this? What's going on? I kind of freak out a little bit. I put my phone on mute, you know, I'm on a conference call and they're all wondering where I, where I went to. And here I am talking to this homeless guy that had broke in and is now squatting or like living there, um, on an air mattress. Well, um, long story short, I ended up giving him some money to take care of himself to like get some food and whatever, but he needed to be out by Monday. Um, and so. I was just, uh, for me it was just nerve wracking to know, like, I'm in this house, I could be str, stranded or trapped. And, and I don't know who's all in this house, but he, he showed me, Hey, I'm just sleeping back here. Here's my mattress. Whatever, whatever. Um, and that's not super crazy. I'm trying to think of another story. I, I'm not a, I a Hollywood film writer, so I don't, I don't have the, the drama. But, um, just dealing with squatters is really the biggest, I guess, hassle. We've, we've come across.
Mike:Yeah, we've run into that quite a bit, gotcha. And a second question I always like to ask is, uh, if you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice when you were looking for that first real estate deal, knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself?
Cody:Um, I'm big on networks and knowledge. Um, I know I look back on my own career and, and just see like, you know, what, what would it have been like if we didn't buy that course? If I didn't buy that course, where would I be? Because that was really the ultimate starter package like the trigger point to start Because I mean who spends 17, 000 18, 000 or something and then not act on it Now you're just sitting on a lot of debt. So Luckily, we had to act on something and so for me starting over again It's like just go out there and act you're going to get in your head about why you can't do x y and z And the moment you start talking to other players in the game You You begin to couple to their narratives, their knowledge, their networks, their private money lenders, their contractors. So get out there and show up and for us that that's what I would recommend to myself starting over. Is where all can I show up and how often?
Mike:I think that's a great piece of advice. Um, Cody, if people want to leave, reach out to you after the show, um, if they have any questions or maybe they got a property they want to sell you, uh, how can they go about doing that?
Cody:Um, you know, I am a mom and pop kind of guy. Just holler at me on my phone. 501 580 3035. Shoot me a text, call, whatever. Um, we can talk.
Mike:Awesome. Cool, man. Well, thanks for being on the show.
Cody:Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks, Mike.